Mr. MITCHELL: Now, as you testified yesterday, you did not know
about the Findings that had been signed by the President authorizing
the Iran initiative. The first of them was signed by the President
on December 5, 1985.
You met with the President on December 7,1985, with other officials,
and you have described that meeting in some length about
how you vigorously opposed the Iran initiative. Am I correct that
the President did not then tell you that he had signed a Finding
authorizing the sale of arms to Iran 2 days before that meeting?
Secretary SHULTZ: I believe that the President has said that he has
no recollection of signing such a Finding, and there is no copy
in existence, so-but he didn't inform me of signing it, but he has
said that he has no recollection of doing so himself.
Mr. MITCHELL: Admiral Poindexter has testified that he was personally
present when the President signed it.
Secretary SHULTZ: Yes, I understand that. All I can do is report
the things that have been said.
Mr. MITCHELL: All right.
Then, we will go on to the next Finding, which occurred on January
6. The President signed a second Finding on January 6, 1986,
and on the following day, met with you and the other principals of
the National Security Council to discuss the Iran initiative.
And am I correct that the President did not tell you then that he
had signed a Finding on this matter on the day before?
Secretary SHULTZ: That is. correct.
Mr. MITCHELL: And then, on January 17, the President signed a
third Finding on Iran, and that same day, in the afternoon, met
with you. Did the President-am' I correct .in my understanding
that on that afternoon, the President did not tell you that he had
signed a third Finding on the Iran initiative on that very day?
Secretary SHULTZ: To the best .of my recollection, the first I
heard of the January 17 Finding was in the. briefing on these matters
on the 10th of November.
Mr. MITCHELL: Well, my point-is 'with all due respect, Mr. Secretary,
it wasn't just Admiral Poindexter who was keeping you in the
dark, was it?
Secretary SHULTZ: Well, if the thrust of your question is that the
President was part of an effort to see that I didn't know what was
going on, I don t believe that.
Mr. MITCHELL: No, that is a conclusion.
Secretary SHULTZ: Yes, that is right. .
Mr. MITCHELL: I think my point is that the President signed
three Findings relating to Iran.
Secretary SHULTZ: He signed two that we know of for sure, an
another that if he signed it in Admiral Poindexter's presence, It apparently
didn't register with him very well, at least he doesn't remember
it. And, quite possibly, the President assumed that some-
how or other there was a process of discussion going on that was
in fact going on.
I am just speculating. But I don't know.
Mr. MITCHELL: In any event--
Secretary SHULTZ: I have a relationship with the President such
that I don't think he is out to deceive me.
Mr. MITCHELL: No, and I certainly didn't mean to suggest that.
My point was that the President, for whatever reason, did not
inform you that he had signed these Findings, even though you
participated in discussions with him regarding the Iran initiative,
we'll take just the last two, on one occasion, on the very same day
and on the other the day after.
Secretary SHULTZ: He didn't inform me and neither did any of
the other people involved.
Mr. MITCHELL: Well-Secretary
SHULTZ. But I--
Mr. MITCHELL: I won't draw any conclusions.
Secretary SHULTZ: I'm not accepting the conclusion that somehow
the President was deceiving me. I don't accept that.
Mr. MITCHELL: I want to make clear I'm not suggesting collusion.
I guess all I'm suggesting is I think in' fairness to Admiral Poindexter,
I think the events as described and as they occurred could
have led him to conclude that it was the President's wish that you
not be informed since he knew that the President had signed the
Findings; he knew that you were Secretary of State and had participated
in discussions on these matters almost contemporaneous
with the Findings, and chose not to tell you about them.
Secretary SHULTZ: I think it is equally arguable or maybe more
so given my knowledge of the President that he assumed that what
was happening I was aware of.