www.dichtung-digital.com/2002/04-20-Biggs.htm

Technology, Aura, and the Self in New Media Art
Interview with Simon Biggs

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Aura in Digital Art and the Author's Signiture in "Great Wall of China"

dd: In your work "The Great Wall of China" the words of Kafka's story are used by a textgenerator to create, in response to the user's input, an endless stream of syntactically correct but semantically meaningless sentences. A complex setting which blurs who is actually considered to be the author here: Kafka, the language machine, you, or the user?

SB: I am not a fan of the idea of the "author's signature". It echoes rather too closely both Benjamin's idea of the "aura" and Greenberg's idea of "touch". I find these concepts alien to what I understand art to be. In the first instance, Benjamin argues that something is art as much due to its aura as anything else. However, I think he has missed the point. Firstly, many objects share this aura that are not art at all, such as old pots fished up out of the Mediterranean. The patinae of age and the "mark" of the human hand conspire to evoke a sentimental response to what is essentially a basic old olive pot. It is little different to any other ordinary pot...the same as a tin can today, or a tube for Pringles. I look forward to the day that they sell old Pringle tubes in expensive antique shops! In this regard Benjamin is clearly wide of the mark in his argument. Also, there are many things that are banal and as common as muck and yet we treasure them for their artistic merit (books are like this) without ascribing an aura to them.

Secondly, and this relates to Greenberg as well, Benjamin makes the classic mistake of ascribing the status of art to the artifact, when any contemporary artist (or theorist) assumes that art is not to be found in the thing but in the process...the artifact is only a trace of the art, and usually that which is of least value. The art object is only valued by those who have a sentimental and bourgoise attachment to material things. In this sense Benjamin has been seduced by what I see as the corruption of art. I guess this is why I like making art that is designed to be experienced but not handled or kept. My art seeks to be immaterial and experiential...where both the reader and the writer are engaged in a moment becoming art.

This is not unusual...artists have pursued this "purity" for centuries, and since the 60's (with performance art, post-object art and now neo-conceptualism) this has been the mainstream dynamic of art. Duchamp's Fountain is a prime (and early) example. I have seen this work and it has no aura so far as I can see. Nor does it have an artists "signature touch" visible anywhere on it (the "signature" on it is not the artists but somebody elses - written by the artist). The whole point of Duchamp's work was to destroy the art object. The irony is that so many now see the urinal as a work of art. I don't see it that way. I see the urinal as a urinal, not as a work of art. If I was to see it as art then I would be missing the point Duchamp was trying to make about art and how we perceive it. Whenever I see it in a museum I laugh because just by being there Duchamp still gets to make the museum, and most of the artworld, look very silly indeed.

dd: This may be exactly the message Duchamp wants to convey. The artifact he hooked on his message is the specific installation of having a Fountain on a wall of a museum not to use it but to look at it (thus still working with an object, which finally was dismissed as well in Daniel Buren's empty gallery rooms). And maybe in this specific space lies the irreproducible aura (because reproducability is not reproducible anymore in the context of readymade-art), as it lies in the specific moment, reader and writer are engaged in your immaterial art.

SB: Perhaps. I am extremely suspicious of the concept of "aura" in respect of anything. I know it does feel amazing when you face the "Mona Lisa" for real, or confront Rodin's "Gates of Hell" or settle down to watch "2001" in a big cinema. This is what I understand, in large part, the aura to be. However, it is also possible to look at these same artifacts and not see that aura. The thing is that the aura of an artifact is not a function of the artifact itself but of the viewers expectations in regard of it, and these expectations are not a product of any engagement between viewer and artifact but rather an aspect of the education, the cultural conditioning, of the viewer.

When I was first starting out as an artist, too long ago, my main interest was formalist abstract painting. My intent was to try and produce images that could not be read as having any meaning at all, that could only be seen as what they were, coloured areas on a material substrate. As part of this I use to spend a lot of my time walking around looking at things and trying to forget what they were at the same time. Sometimes you could succeed and, for instance, do so to the degree that you would be nearly run over because the rapid scale shift of a 2D abstract shape you were so enjoying only, at the last moment, resolved in your mind into a rapidly approaching car. It is also entertaining to look at art like this...that is, to look at it and at the same time dismiss from your mind its status as art and any knowledge you have about the history of the artifact. This is hard to do, but you can do it...and presto, the aura is gone. This can be refreshing as it allows you to see things without the filters imposed upon them/us by society. To me Duchamp was seeking this state in Fountain.

Of course, with other disciplines this is not necessarily an issue. In literature people do not feel that a book is only art if it is unique, has an aura and is hand written to ensure we can all see the author's "signature". Of course not. With literature what is valued is the immaterial and abstract aspect of the book...the text we hear in our heads as we read. It is just that some disciplines, such as art, are weighed down by their close relationship to "things", and this can cause people to mistake "things" for art. Heidegger, I think, and certainly Nietsche, addressed this issue in depth. Did not Heidegger refer to the "thinginess of things thinging"...suggesting that the existence of things is not in their materiality but in their interaction with other things? This focuses the argument on process rather than artifact. Benjamin and Greenberg missed that one.

So, in answer to your question, I do not seek to find the author's signature. I doubt its existence. I do not believe in the singularity of being nor the singularity of the author (I see beingness as a node in a complex of interelations, coming into being only in so far as those interactions allow it and only as a dynamic "coming into", never as a static "I am")...so how can I entertain a notion such as "signature" and the values that flow from that idea. "The Great Wall" directly engages with this through how it questions the origin of things...although I think "Babel" expresses this idea better with its blurring of the subjective in experience (that everyone can see everyone elses "point of view" and none is defined as primary).

dd: Lets dwell on the author's "signature" and sort things out. By asking about the "signature" I didn't mean so much a unique piece like a hand written book but rather this immaterial and abstract text of the book or any artifact we hear in our heads as we read. We know that this text (in its materialization by letters) has been generated by all the authors the author has read. And we know that the text (in its immaterial materialization by the reader) is written by all authors the reader has read. This is actually what Foucault and Barthes meant by announcing the author's death or disappearance.

SB: This relates to what I have just said about the aura and its contingency. The author too is a contingent construct. I would argue that the very idea of the "self" is a contingent construct, a thing that only exists in its relation to certain other things. This is a very fragile thing as you only have to disturb one of the key relational elements and the self is either shifted radically or destroyed. If this is the case for selfhood then it is clearly even more the case for the notion of "author", which is an even more socially contingent construct. The same can also be said of the "reader", of course. So, it is on this level that I mean that I do not recognise the idea of the author's signature. It is a question of ontology, not aesthetics or stylistics.

dd: To come back to the narrow question about the author in "The Great Wall of China": This intertextuality takes up a new quality when the words (materialized by letters) are provided by Kafka and rearranged by a language machine, which has been set up by you. Let me explain what I mean. The applied language machine in "The Great Wall of China" does not generate any meaningful sentences. The text is 'de-semantisized' again and again, no matter how often the user starts the machine. There is text but no meaning. This corresponds to the text used itself. In Kafka's story the myth tells of a messenger on his way with the emperor's message, which is particular for the person addressed by the narrator of the story. As we learn, the messenger is on his way for ages, and the message may never arrive. The only thing the narrator and the addressed person know is that there is a message. Of course Kafka does not reveal how the message about the messenger already can have arrived. Nor does he have to, since the longing for a message has an anthropological dimension.

Your work seems to adapt this idea: Knowing there is a message on its way is quite similar to having text but being unable to make sense of it. In both cases one is told that one is missing something. It is pretty clear, without Hermes - the Grecian name for messenger - and without hermeneutic efforts the text will not give away its message. However, Hermes will never arrive in Kafka's story and hermeneutics doesn't help to understand the text in your piece. Is Kafka's original text the message one needs to know in order to understand your appropriation of Kafka's text?

SB: For me the wall itself is the central metaphor in the Kafka, not the message or the messenger. However, as Kafka treats all these elements the same I can see the relevance of your point and question. Kafka's wall is never finished, it has no beginning nor any end...and in many respects it has little purpose, other than offering an opportunity for administrators to administrate (a constant Kafka theme). In my "Great Wall" this is also explicit, although the metaphor I use is language itself. In "Great Wall" it is language, not the message or the messenger, that is seen to fail as textual meaning is infinitely deferred. The meaning of the work is only legible if you stop reading the texts and start looking at how the interactivity functions. It is in the relations between the parts and how one aspect alters or effects another that the actual "text" of the work is revealed.

I don't think you need to know Kafka to "read" "Great Wall." It might even help if you have never heard of him...I'm not sure. However, if your understanding of Kafka's story is that it is about how people seek to obfuscate to infinity simply to ensure their own interests then it might help. It is the old Kafka story, perhaps clearer in "The Castle", of the institution superceding the individual, that individual then becoming a willing cog in the machine that ensures that institutions hegemony.

dd: Are you saying you could have equally used any other text by Kafka or even any text of any author?

SB: Yes. It would have made little difference to the resultant texts in the work or its appearance. The only value in using the Kafka words is in the viewers knowledge that I used them and the associations that knowing this brings to the work. It is a case of manipulating the frame or context of the work. I could even have lied about it, and it would have made little difference (unless I publicly admitted the lie). 


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